Deliberately uncover a firearm if being harassed?

Carry related chit-chat
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jggatlin
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Hello!

Forgive me if this has been asked before..

If I am in legal concealed carry, and find myself being verbally harassed in public, what are the legal ramifications of intentionally revealing my firearm?

Not touching it, or saying anything threatening but just casually moving my jacket aside, while giving a verbal command to step back or something of the like?

Thank you!
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Bitter Clinger
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Always best to attempt to de-escalate if possible. If not in a 30.07 posted property than no legal issue from that very narrow perspective.

Just my personal opinion, however as I carry concealed 99.95% of the time I feel that if I am lifting or opening my cover garment in order to uncover my holstered firearm then I had better be very prepared and JUSTIFIED to employ it. The best fight is the one you can avoid, if at all possible to do so. YMMV.
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John
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jggatlin wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:21 am Hello!

Forgive me if this has been asked before..

If I am in legal concealed carry, and find myself being verbally harassed in public, what are the legal ramifications of intentionally revealing my firearm?

Not touching it, or saying anything threatening but just casually moving my jacket aside, while giving a verbal command to step back or something of the like?

Thank you!
Unless you feel like your life is being threatened, it’s a bad idea. Introducing a weapon into the equation could bee seen as escalation, and go badly for you. Don’t show it unless you feel like you’re justified in using it.
You’d be much better off just finding somewhere else to be, unless you have some reason you can’t leave.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, and this isn’t legal advice.
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Jusme
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John wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:14 pm
jggatlin wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:21 am Hello!

Forgive me if this has been asked before..

If I am in legal concealed carry, and find myself being verbally harassed in public, what are the legal ramifications of intentionally revealing my firearm?

Not touching it, or saying anything threatening but just casually moving my jacket aside, while giving a verbal command to step back or something of the like?

Thank you!
Unless you feel like your life is being threatened, it’s a bad idea. Introducing a weapon into the equation could bee seen as escalation, and go badly for you. Don’t show it unless you feel like you’re justified in using it.
You’d be much better off just finding somewhere else to be, unless you have some reason you can’t leave.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, and this isn’t legal advice.
Bitter Clinger wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:45 am Always best to attempt to de-escalate if possible. If not in a 30.07 posted property than no legal issue from that very narrow perspective.

Just my personal opinion, however as I carry concealed 99.95% of the time I feel that if I am lifting or opening my cover garment in order to uncover my holstered firearm then I had better be very prepared and JUSTIFIED to employ it. The best fight is the one you can avoid, if at all possible to do so. YMMV.


I agree with both of these. De-escalate, or extricate, if possible. Verbal harassment, is not, in my opinion, going to be viewed, by a DA, as a justifiable reason to display a firearm.
While it is legal, to Open Carry, I would think, that going from CC to OC, during a confrontation, could be perceived as an escalation.
If the agitator refuses, to allow you to leave, or threatens you in any way, then I think that verbally notifying him/her, that you are armed, while moving your cover garment, may be justified. IANL and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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Tex1961
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Texas Penal code is pretty clear on this.. See below.. I have highlighted the last line in red for you... I would suggest however that you look over this link for the Texas LTC-16 as it relates to Texas License to carry handgun laws.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms ... LTC-16.pdf

Scroll down to around page 53 or so until you get to PC section 9. Here you will find all of the verbiage related to use of force and deadly force...

Fortunately or unfortunately Texas law isn't always Black and white... There are multiple variables that always need to be considered. Time of day. Location, and so forth. If you are say a young woman and you have found yourself surrounded by a group of very intimidating men who are threatening to rape and or murder you then you are going to have much better leeway in the use of force or showing of force.. I doubt to many juries would find you guilty (personal opinion)... As others have said, your best course is to A. Try to de-esclate the situation and B. Attempt to remove yourself as quickly as possible.

With all of this being said, now that Texas is open carry (with LTC), there really isn't any major laws against moving your shirt around to show that you are armed.. I'm not going to lie and tell you that in certain situations I wouldn't do the same thing... However as soon as you put your hand on your weapon and or remove it from the holster you have now escalated the situation and could be an illegal use of force...




Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;
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jggatlin
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Thank you for your insight! Good info!
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AndyC
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A friend of mine was charged with Deadly Conduct for doing that - took a year and a half before the case was dismissed, cost him about $8k in attorney's fees.

Might not be fair, but it's safer to find other ways to disengage.
Tex1961
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AndyC wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:45 pm A friend of mine was charged with Deadly Conduct for doing that - took a year and a half before the case was dismissed, cost him about $8k in attorney's fees.

Might not be fair, but it's safer to find other ways to disengage.
I would love to hear the details about that if you wouldn’t mind.

Also your post is exactly why you should have carry insurance.
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AndyC
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He's in the security industry and won't appreciate any details leaking out (not that I know many specifics anyway); he's embarrassed that it ever happened.

Agree re carry-insurance.
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